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Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 04 May 2021 18:35
by TheGrew
Really loving the set though I have a few things I have noticed playing that I thought I would bring to the thread as suggestions/requests:
- The DVT when coupled to the Class 91 for an Intercity 225 set allows the train to path find onto non-electrified track. I only realised this when it clogged my network running at 1MPH. Could the stats be altered slightly so it is closer to 5MPH?
- Can we have a class 365 based on the 465 with slightly different stats.
- Could we have a class 350/1 desiro that can do 110mph and be dual voltage
- I would also love a class 323
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 04 May 2021 23:56
by Timberwolf
Hmm... feels like the DVT is hitting the curse of creeping escalation - maybe I should never have made it usable on non-electric lines, and then that wouldn't be a problem? I have a feeling this would be one of those things that is "fixed" for about as long as it takes for someone to go, "DVTs have too much power, can we have a parameter" and then we're off into a world of complexity for what should be a simple eyecandy option.
(Actually I quite like the idea of a train that is really, really annoying if it gets in the wrong place. But then again I also once wrote a patch so trains properly stalled on hills if they weren't powerful enough)
Units .. I'm kind of burnt out on modern MUs. I went through a phase of adding a bunch but stopped mainly because the requests didn't: it's by far the worst class for, "your reward for adding this is requests for 5 more of the same thing". And I find personally when I'm playing a game all it gives is a massive list of options which are all 3-5 cars, all have similar capacity per unit length, all do somewhere around 100mph and all look about the same. Other people do the "comprehensive repository of British multiple units" thing better than I do and seem to actually enjoy the process, whereas they've tended to be a bit necessary-but-tedious in terms of drawing for me.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 05 May 2021 09:05
by Taschi
Maybe it would be an acceptable workaround to have one "electric" DVT and one "Diesel" DVT, both with identical models but different IDs?
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 05 May 2021 09:34
by Timberwolf
The core problem for me is the DVT as something that constantly has some problem with it, and multiple IDs will inevitably lead to the "why are there two DVTs in the list?"
Ultimately, Transport Tycoon was never designed to have cosmetic leading vehicles. So the objectively correct solution is not to include them, it's not supported and there will always be some compromise somewhere. Beyond that you have varying hacks. Some special wagon you add to the end of the train and then a bunch of hairy sprite-swapping logic so the "wagon" and "engine" use each other's sprites (this will be a minefield in a set which already abuses articulated vehicles to do clever stuff), or the other route where it is a locomotive itself and you now have all the same power type and stat restrictions. Now you are into the, "it's too powerful, you can exploit the game by using it as a cheap vehicle", "it's too expensive because it's balanced as if it were a proper locomotive", "it can't haul a train if the actual engine has no power"...
So the interesting thing here, I think there is a potential solution - you could use the vehicle bitmasks and therefore consist bitmask so that if all other engines in the consist have no power, the DVT/DBSO gets enough of a boost to haul the consist to safety. But then, hmm... we did "complex logic most people will never be in a situation to encounter" in Road Vehicles v2 and it has a habit of breeding until I have a 300-line template which every vehicle must use for its power output, and the slightest perturbation in the wrong place causes it all to irrecoverably collapse and now adding a vehicle is 1 hour drawing, 4 hours painful debugging. Did I ever mention how parameters killed RVs v2?
Conclusion: give me some time to think about it. Currently I'm about 50/50 on, "try to find some elegant way to make it look like it works" or "just remove the DVTs and DBSOs, there's never going to be a point at which someone isn't discovering yet another situation which needs fixing". Probably I should work on Boats and come back to it.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 05 May 2021 09:50
by Taschi
Personally I'd prefer having the trailers as they are now, with minor edge case weirdnesses, rather than not having them at all.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 09 May 2021 00:01
by AmbiguousBriton
Small bug report!
I ran a few trials to try to see why my revenue dropped after swapping the King Class for Corinations and A4s as they came out, and discovered why it outperforms all other express locomotives; You've assigned its weight as 99 Tonnes, which is the loco's weight, in long tons, without the tender.
All other steam locos that I've found have their weight given in short tons, and have their tender included. As it stands, owing to the fact that the King Class is effectively towing two less coaches then all the other express locos, it is undisputably the best steam, bar none, and arguably the best express locomotive until the Deltic comes out. This might warrant fixing, much as I love the GWR in general and the King class in particular!
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 10 May 2021 08:56
by Timberwolf
Thanks - I've updated the tracking table so it should be fixed the next time I make an update.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 13 May 2021 09:08
by Rezot
Acknowledging you're busy with ships right now, I just had a stray thought that might look nice in future Station mods-
Barrow Crossings
These would serve as a way for passengers to cross the tracks at early stations when the raised footbridge tiles aren't available and would make nice eye candy generally as they remained present until the early 2000s. This included some still in use, with staff guidance, to allow passengers in wheelchairs to cross the line at stations where there weren't lifts or ramps to all platforms.
Just a (hopefully!) fun thought
* My primary example of a station with a barrow crossing still in use until recently is Market Harborough, where the crossing had a light signal that went out if a train was approaching, then was fenced off with staff access only, then sealed entirely after the building of a new footbridge with lifts as an alternative to the century+ underpass that had steps only at the Up Platform end. I'm sure it wasn't the only one!
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 14 May 2021 13:39
by MasterOktagon
Hi timberwolf,
your work is incredible!
Here are some suggestions from me:
- Unbenannt, 1930-01-01#1.png (199.12 KiB) Viewed 3744 times
1. Make Station Hall for 4 or 6 Tracks (Good for big stations)
2. make Underground Stations (with overlap tiles to cover tunnel entrances
- Unbenannt, 1930-01-01#2.png (43.07 KiB) Viewed 6526 times
1. Underpass
2. "Stairs to bridge"
- Unbenannt, 1930-01-01#4.png (31.67 KiB) Viewed 6526 times
This is from a mod named "modular locomotive sheds" available on BaNaNaS. Would be cool to see this in your set
Keep your work up!
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 14 May 2021 15:41
by Taschi
Timberwolf keeps saying that he doesn't like getting overwhelmed by requests for things to add so... please don't
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 15 May 2021 05:14
by MasterOktagon
Oh, sorry
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 01 Jun 2021 08:41
by Rezot
Seconded. I'm aware of the justifiable aversion to request spam. I just wanted to raise a feature I thought might be fun, having played a long game with the set. However, I can see how that might come across as pushy.
Thanks again to Timberwolf for sharing this great set and its siblings. Looking forward to seeing more in the future, but always in your own time.
All the best to everyone here!
Incidentally, would this be a good place to share screenshots of games using the pack, or send them to the main screenshot thread?
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 01 Jun 2021 09:26
by Taschi
People come here for information and progress updates so personally I'd say to keep screenshots in the screenshot forum. No need to put them in the big screenshot thread, you can make your own thread there.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 14 Jun 2021 23:47
by audigex
Timberwolf wrote: ↑05 May 2021 09:34
The core problem for me is the DVT as something that constantly has some problem with it, and multiple IDs will inevitably lead to the "why are there two DVTs in the list?"
Ultimately, Transport Tycoon was never designed to have cosmetic leading vehicles. So the objectively correct solution is not to include them, it's not supported and there will always be some compromise somewhere. Beyond that you have varying hacks. Some special wagon you add to the end of the train and then a bunch of hairy sprite-swapping logic so the "wagon" and "engine" use each other's sprites (this will be a minefield in a set which already abuses articulated vehicles to do clever stuff), or the other route where it is a locomotive itself and you now have all the same power type and stat restrictions. Now you are into the, "it's too powerful, you can exploit the game by using it as a cheap vehicle", "it's too expensive because it's balanced as if it were a proper locomotive", "it can't haul a train if the actual engine has no power"...
So the interesting thing here, I think there is a potential solution - you could use the vehicle bitmasks and therefore consist bitmask so that if all other engines in the consist have no power, the DVT/DBSO gets enough of a boost to haul the consist to safety. But then, hmm... we did "complex logic most people will never be in a situation to encounter" in Road Vehicles v2 and it has a habit of breeding until I have a 300-line template which every vehicle must use for its power output, and the slightest perturbation in the wrong place causes it all to irrecoverably collapse and now adding a vehicle is 1 hour drawing, 4 hours painful debugging. Did I ever mention how parameters killed RVs v2?
Conclusion: give me some time to think about it. Currently I'm about 50/50 on, "try to find some elegant way to make it look like it works" or "just remove the DVTs and DBSOs, there's never going to be a point at which someone isn't discovering yet another situation which needs fixing". Probably I should work on Boats and come back to it.
Could it make sense to simply turn the 91 into an MU (similar to, say, a 43/Intercity 125) and use that to attach the DVT more directly to the locomotive? It would be trading off a little flexibility, but I can't imagine *many* people would use the 91 without a DVT.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 15 Jun 2021 07:35
by agnott
Aye, but the DVT is also used with (at least) the Class 90, Class 68, Class 67...
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 18 Jun 2021 13:49
by TheGrew
As above I also use it trains other than then 91. I am not too fussed with having it acting as the lead of a vehicle though so would be quite happy with it being at the end (much like a break van).
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 18 Jun 2021 14:08
by Taschi
TheGrew wrote: ↑18 Jun 2021 13:49
As above I also use it trains other than then 91. I am not too fussed with having it acting as the lead of a vehicle though so would be quite happy with it being at the end (much like a break van).
I, for one, derive great pleasure from looking at working push-pull trains.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 23 Jun 2021 20:29
by Fairyfloss
I really don't know if this can be considered a 'bug' or if it's just nitpicking at this point, but I wanted to let you know of this in case it's the former.
Depending on the direction of travel, plenty of vehicles have their alignment different compared to other directions.
- trenswap.gif (26.85 KiB) Viewed 4941 times
Also, if you ever add more trains, have you considered adding a
Garratt of some kind?
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 23 Jun 2021 20:51
by Taschi
I know this is off-topic but it looks like it's in an extremely enjoyable rave.
Re: Timberwolf's UK.... trains?
Posted: 24 Jun 2021 06:59
by Auge
Hello
Looks like an out of round running engine. *rumble* *shake*
Tschö, Auge